We live on the unceded traditional territories of indigenous nations.
Ep 8 – The Fosters and Hidden Figures
Lin has been bingeing The Fosters on Netflix, and she recommends it for broad representation of diversity, in terms of race/ethnicity, gender and sexual identity, as well as disability. It doesn’t hurt that the writers have nailed the dramatic structure, so that each episode ends on a cliff hanger. You have no choice but to binge-watch!
In the mean time, Margrit has caught up to 2016! They watched finally watched Hidden Figures and are here to tell you it’s super well done, offering a nuanced glimpse into the hurdles of African American women’s efforts to forge a professional career at NASA in segregated early-1960s Virginia. But, of course, you already knew that, because you haven’t been living under a rock deprived of this awesome film.
Question of the episode: What’s a good show or movie that you’ve watched that walks the talk of diversity?
Join the conversation on Twitter at @World_ofStories or email us at worldofstoriespodcast@gmail.com.
Transcript
Margrit 0:00
Welcome to World of Stories. I’m Margrit and my pronoun is they.
Lin 0:03
I’m Lin and my pronoun is she. We’re here to talk about diversity in storytelling,
Margrit 0:07
And it’s super exciting because this time around, we’re actually recording face to face.
Lin 0:11
We are in the same room.
Margrit 0:13
Yay. Happy Holidays. This is still 2018 the very last days of 2018.
Lin 0:19
Mm hmm, although when this goes out, it will be January of 2019.
Margrit 0:23
Yay. So Happy New Year.
Lin 0:24
Happy New Year.
Margrit 0:26
So Lin, what have you been enjoying this week?
Lin 0:29
So I have been bingeing a TV show called The Fosters, and I’ve been watching it on Netflix, but I think it’s an ABC show. And the premise of the show is that there is a lesbian couple, one of them is white, and the other is biracial with a Black mother and a white father. And they have this really big diverse family where one kid is the biological son of one of the mothers. And then there’s a pair of twins who are Latinx, one boy and one girl. And then there is another pair of siblings. Also one boy, one girl and both of the twins and the other pair of siblings were originally fostered, and then eventually adopted into the family.
Margrit 1:23
Is this word the name The Fosters come from? Or are they actually called the Fosters?
Lin 1:27
No, so Fosters is one of the last names of one of the mothers. Well, okay, it’s very complicated. The–Steph, which is the white woman, she was previously married to a man, and so the man’s name is Mike Foster. So she changed her name. And so her son’s name–has the last name Foster. And so that’s how they’re called The Fosters, but also because it’s like a foster family.
Margrit 1:58
Right, right.
Lin 1:58
So it’s a play on words. Yeah.
And so obviously like the mothers are queer, and then there’s also the one son, one of the adopted sons who is also queer, but it’s not clear at this point–I think I’m like four seasons in, right now, I’ve binged a lot–it’s unclear whether he’s gay or bi or maybe he’s pan or he’s–unclear. He’s still figuring it out. We’re on the journey with him.
Margrit 2:28
That’s exciting.
Lin 2:29
Yeah. So it’s, um, really binge worthy. So if you’re into like, really high drama, like everything is existential, high emotions, like somebody’s crying almost at any point in the show. Definitely, like some like crazy crisis in every episode.
Margrit 2:54
But, like, not so operatic.
Lin 2:57
I mean, it could–it could be. Like people get shot–like, people get, you know, because it’s like foster care system. So it’s like some very difficult conversations, or sorry, not conversations but like, difficult situations that kids get into and then… So yeah, there’s like lots of, lots of trauma.
And so yeah, I really liked the show because I think it’s got a really good representation of diversity, or sorry, broad representation. So as I mentioned, there’s like racial representation. But there’s also like the biological father, Mike, he is a recovering alcoholic. The biological mother of the twins is also a drug addict. And one of the twins, the boy, has ADHD and so there’s also disability representation. There’s a couple of trans characters played by trans actors, which is really nice. Um, so just like lots of different types of people that come into the story. And yeah, so I’ve just been enjoying watching different people being in the show. And they talk about things that are like, not controversial, but like important issues of our day. So like, the father and the mother, the pair that used to be married, they’re both police officers. And so they go into police brutality and racial profiling and things like that. And then the other mother is the vice principal of the charter school where all of the kids go to school. And so they talk about like, you know, education, education reform and things like, you know, violence in schools and how do you talk to kids about all sorts of different things. And then because it’s like very integrated into the foster care system, there’s lots of issues in the foster care system that they go into that they talk about. And so for, like a network show, they’re not shy about doing delving into these topics.
Margrit 5:21
Right. That’s good. That’s good. Because I have to confess that I did give this show a try a while ago. And I just watched, I think, the pilot, but not all of it. And maybe it was–maybe I was just in a terrible mood or something. But it did seem to me like it was very, very goody-two-shoes in a kind of a stereotypical way that implied a certain kind of femininity in the sense that here are these two mothers who are coming home from a day’s work and there’s these teenagers around and they all have issues and the mothers are all like, super ready to just give everybody emotional support. And like, it’s like, it doesn’t take any toll on them. And they’re just, this is what they’re there for. So that was sort of the impression that I got, and it kind of rubbed me the wrong way in the sense of the underlying assumptions. But I might have jumped the gun on my conclusion on it.
Lin 6:19
I think yes, and no, because I think that, um, you know, we were talking before we hit the record button that when it’s just the pilot, they have to frame the pilot in a certain way to make sure it’s sold. Right? And so I think there probably is a little bit of that. And I think also a lot of shows change as the show goes on. They grow. The characters grow and they develop. Sometimes, it’s hard to capture all of that, with like one or two episodes or even in the first season. And so I think, um, you know, I’ve binged a lot. I’m like, on season four at this point. And so you definitely see the mothers go through this, like, you see, like the emotional toil it takes on them, dealing with all of these issues all the time. And then the way that they react to things without thinking, because it’s like when you’re tired and it’s just like, one issue after another, one drama after another, you just like react. And you can see how they’re like different personalities and they react in very different ways.
Margrit 7:29
So yeah, I’ll give this another go. Because I’m always looking for shows that I can watch, binge or otherwise, that are actually you know, a good representation of diversity because I’ve just stumbled over a couple of shows these days and I can’t even, I can’t even take them seriously when they have like an all white cast. With a token person of color in there.
Lin 7:52
It’s really hard to watch.
Margrit 7:53
It’s just like, are you kidding me? Like you’re–by not casting diverse people in these roles, you are making a statement and I’m not interested in whatever it is that you’re showing.
Lin 8:04
Yeah. So I watched most of my TV on Netflix and I scroll through Netflix, and you know how they have like the, the picture for like the icon for the show, or whatever. And I’m just like looking at the cast, and like if it looks too white and I just like scroll right past it.
Margrit 8:19
Yeah. It’s just like, this is not the kind of world that I’m interested in. This is not the kind of world that exists today. So even if it’s fantasy, or sci fi or whatever. Yeah.
Lin 8:29
So one interesting thing about the show from a storytelling perspective, is that they’re writers have nailed the story arc for every episode, they’re so good. Every episode ends on some sort of cliffhanger that makes you, like just itch for the next episode.
Margrit 8:46
Yeah, that is really soap operatic, isn’t it?
Lin 8:48
It is. It is.
Margrit 8:50
It’s not a bad thing in terms of the structure.
Lin 8:52
Yeah. So I mean, it just makes people want to keep watching. Yeah, but it’s like I said, it’s like very high drama. It’s very–it’s not for everyone, if people just want like, just chill and relax, it might not be for them. But, um, yeah, also if it’s just a study in how to plot out a story and keep people engaged. It’s very good. Although, I mean, some of their twists have been predictable, but still, like–
Margrit 9:19
Cliches are good for, you know, they have their uses.
Lin 9:24
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it fits with the type of show that it is. So I think that’s why I was able to predict some of the twists. Right, but it works.
So yeah, anyway, what have you been enjoying this week?
Margrit 9:39
Well, I have taken advantage of the winter holidays and I’ve watched some TV–actual TV. I have to confess though. so what I’m going to be talking about is, I’m going to be talking about the movie Hidden Figures. Have you seen it?
Lin 9:51
I have.
Margrit 9:52
Okay, I’m very late to this party. I’m aware.
Lin 9:54
That’s okay. There’s a lot of other shows or movies I haven’t seen yet.
Margrit 9:59
And so it was on TV and I actually had to PVR it because I could not deal with the commercials. Like, the commercials were the exact same length as the–well, part of the movie they were showing. And then at some point, I’m like, no.
Lin 10:12
What did we do before technology that cut out commercials? I mean, how did we live?
Margrit 10:17
I don’t know–what did we do during the commercials. Did we just watched them?
Lin 10:21
I think we did. Actually, when I was a kid, I remember enjoying the commercials more than I enjoyed the actual show. So then I would like wander away when the show was on and then come back and watch the commercials.
Margrit 10:35
So maybe advertising companies were actually doing a better job at keeping people’s attention.
Lin 10:39
Could be. Or I was a kid and I couldn’t really follow the show, because maybe it was too complex, but like a commercial is easy to follow.
Margrit 10:46
So wow! Then bubbly! And big, bright colors and–
Yeah, anyway, so very late to the Hidden Figures party. I adored this movie. And so for any outliers, like me, who have not seen this movie yet. It’s the story of African American women who worked for NAASA.
Is it NAASA?
Lin 11:07
NASA?
Margrit 11:09
NASA. We have not had any alcohol to drink. No, we have been just imbibing green tea. But it’s so exciting just to be face to face that I get a little giddy. So NASA, African American women who have been working for NASA as human computers during the space race with the USSR in the late 50s and early 60s. And the film is based on Margot Lee Shetterly’s eponymous book. And basically, the movie centers three mathematicians who fight their way to recognition, more education and a better career for them and their peers under a hugely, enormously oppressive culture and conditions–living conditions and working conditions and all those. Basically, this is Virginia in, you know, is it late 50s, early 60s? It’s early 60s, I think? I think Kennedy is running for president.
Lin 12:02
I have no clue.
Margrit 12:03
Anyway. So Virginia is still racially segregated and it’s strictly enforced. And the movie does a really good job of showing, for example, how one of the characters, Katherine Goble, who later marries and is named Katherine Johnson. And she’s played by Taraji P. Henson. And she has to run across the NASA campus for like, for like 30 minutes or so, just to use the segregated washroom. The only washroom that’s available to Black women on campus.
Lin 12:34
I remember that. That scene just made me so angry.
Margrit 12:39
It’s very interesting because they play that scene over and over. It’s like three times repeated throughout the movie and it’s so good. Just showing sort of, what could be or what is, in all of our lives, a very small thing that we take for granted, going into the washroom.
Lin 12:53
That we never think about.
Margrit 12:54
Yeah. And just showing how this small thing is blown out of proportion for, you know, for Black people, and that sort of is made to remind them of their, sort of, quote unquote enforced inferiority. Right? And so the movie does a really good job at just showing these things that we now take for granted and how difficult they were. And you know, situations and how humiliation works to enforce this, this difference between or the hierarchy of the races, right?
Um, another example is when Mary Jackson, who’s played by Janelle Monae has to petition the judge to attend night classes because she wants to become an engineer. And she wants to attend night classes at a whites only school in spite of the fact that the Supreme Court had already ruled on Brown versus the Board of Education, against segregation in education. So she still has to present her case. And it’s with a lot of pathos and emotion that she does that in the movie, and it’s a very interesting scene. And so there’s a lot of emotion–emotional scenes that sort of, amass to show the reality of these characters who were actual real people and how they lived their lives.
Another really good issue that the movie shows and that has been sort of, that is still a sort of an ongoing issue is the disciplinary force of the politics of civility? Right? The politics of civility that prevent marginalized people from voicing anything about their oppression because any hint of emotion even rightful–any negative emotions like frustration or whatever–becomes this thing that diminishes the validity of the marginalized people’s plight, right? Because when marginalized people talk about their emotions, say for example, how they’re frustrated they are about a situation. They’re not–the dominant impugn the emotion or like the tone.
Lin 14:58
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Margrit 15:00
Without actually addressing the issue, and so everything becomes tone policing. And that is shown in the movie really well and how all of these three major characters need to–all of the time just swallow up all of their emotions in order to be able to function. And to be able to sort of be seen as–not even equals because there’s clearly no equality.
Lin 15:26
But even just like, being able to be in the room. To do what they do. They have to, like, as you say, like, swallow their emotion. They have to be this like, perfect image of what, like the white men they’re working with think they should be.
Margrit 15:41
Like, super idealize personalities. And this is not–it’s not the same with the white characters who are, you know, angry and throwing things around or like snarky or whatever. And so again, there’s this very subtle play on the emotions that are allowed.
Lin 15:58
Yeah, and I wonder… There’s two layers to that, right? Because it’s like a Black versus white, but also women versus men. Because there’s three Black women, surrounded by white men. And so it’s like, doubly like double the oppression.
Margrit 16:21
The movie does a really good job of showing the intersectionality, too. Because when Taraji P. Henson is courted by Maharshala Ali, her future husband in the movie. The first time they meet, he’s like, oh, isn’t your job too difficult for a woman.
Lin 16:38
Right. Yeah. Exactly.
Margrit 16:39
So it’s, the oppression comes from many angles. And it’s really well done. And visually too, where the room in which Katherine Goble works is full of white men, and the fashion is everybody’s in white shirts with a black tie. And so she’s literally in a sea of white. So it’s really well done, the details are really, really interesting to look at.
Right? And so remember how, in Episode Seven, we were talking about how stories, how human stories, like individual stories can make capital H history personal. And I think this movie does that so well by, by exactly illustrating these feelings of being made inferior by a system that intends to dehumanize you, right? And so and that comes through very, very powerfully in this movie. And in turn, this fantastic use of pathos makes the successes of these three women and other African American women stand out even more because of all of the hurdles they had to overcome, and how much energy– This is another thing that the movie does really well is just to show how much energy they have to expend just to do their jobs because they have to constantly advocate for themselves, right? Yeah, it’s like, you know, the moment when Katherine runs from the toilet through the rain and she gets back to the office and the big boss is like, where are you going for so much of your day, right? And she’s like, well, I just have to pee and there’s no, you know, segregated washroom anywhere but there, right? It’s like, just to live your life, you just have to advocate for yourself and that takes a lot of energy.
So I really adored this movie. And if there’s anyone else like me, who has not yet watched it, I really recommend you go watch it.
Lin 18:26
Yeah, I think it’s really good. Everyone should go check it out. It’s a really, really good movie.
Margrit 18:32
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, you know, um, I hope you know, they’re, you know, the movie or the actors are getting some Oscars, but I think that ship has sailed. Because I think the movie came out, I don’t know, maybe last year? I don’t know.
Lin 18:47
A few years, I think.
Margrit 18:51
I’m so sorry.
Lin 18:53
Yeah, no, it was a while ago.
Margrit 18:55
Did they get any Oscars?
Lin 18:56
I don’t remember. I’m not good at remembering Oscar things.
Margrit 19:00
Yeah, I’m not gonna google it right now. But yeah, go watch the movie or like rent it or… I’m not sure it’s on Netflix or…
Lin 19:07
I’m not sure but it’s out there. So go check it out. So what’s our question for the episode?
Margrit 19:13
Um, what’s a good show or movie that you’ve watched that actually walks the talk of diversity? Give us give us some recommendations to tide us through.
Lin 19:23
Because I’m a total like binge watcher. Oh, yeah, I need shows and movies to consume.
Margrit 19:31
Do you see how excited we get about movies and shows?
Lin 19:34
Oh, yes. And so you can always comment on this or previous episodes on Twitter @World_ofStories. Or you can email us at worldofstoriespodcast@gmail.com. We would love to hear what you think.
Margrit 19:47
And be sure to subscribe to our podcast to get new episodes as they drop. If you like our show, please leave us a review on iTunes, Google Play or wherever you’re listening to us. And thank you so much for listening.
Lin 19:58
Thanks very much. Bye.
Margrit 20:00
Bye.