Ep 7 – Seven Fallen Feathers and Echo

Tanya Talaga’s non-fiction book Seven Fallen Feathers illustrates the vicious confluence of racist attitudes and a colonizing culture through the stories of seven indigenous children who died in similar circumstances in Thunder Bay, Ontario. We talk about how much of the history and reality of indigenous people living in Canada is still obscured and rendered invisible today.

Echo by Pam Muñoz Ryan weaves the fictional stories of three musically gifted children who live in politically charged times in mid-twentieth century. From Nazi Germany through the American Depression to the impact of Japanese interment in the US during WWII, political turmoil is personalized in the lives of children whose fates are linked by a special harmonica.

Question of the episode: Do you have an example of a story that touched you and informed you of people you didn’t really know much about?

Join the conversation on Twitter at @World_ofStories or email us at worldofstoriespodcast@gmail.com.

Transcript

Margrit 0:00
Welcome to World of Stories. I’m Margrit and my pronoun is they.

Lin 0:04
I’m Lin and my pronoun is she. We’re here to talk about diversity in storytelling. So this week I wanted to talk about a book called Seven Fallen Feathers by Tanya Talaga. Have you heard of that book?

Margrit 0:17
I have. I’ve had many people recommend it to me. I have not gotten to read it first yet. So I’m looking forward to hearing what you have to say about it.

Lin 0:28
Yeah, so I really loved it. Tanya Talaga is a journalist with the Toronto Star and she’s an Indigenous woman. And I have to say, just off the bat, that I really love books written by journalists. They just seem to be able to tell the story in a really concise way and hammer home like why it’s important and what the point of the story is.

So this book is about seven teenagers who have died in Thunder Bay, which is a northern city in the Canadian province of Ontario. And so just to set the context of what’s going on here, it’s a nonfiction book. There are quite a few reserves, Indigenous reserves in Northern Ontario. And a lot of them are very poorly served by the education system. So most of them don’t have any high schools. And so if teenagers want to get a high school education, they have to leave their families and go to Thunder Bay. And Thunder Bay, while small by global standards, is much bigger than the communities in which these teenagers grew up in.

So in the book, the author talks about how the teenagers–it might be the first time they’ve seen a traffic light because there’s no traffic lights in the communities where they grew up. Or might be the first time they’ve ever been on public transit and they have to learn how to cross the street and learn how to read maps and know where to get off the bus if they need to go where they are going. And so it’s kind of a shock to them to suddenly go from these small communities with their families into this, for them, a big city. And they’re living often with other Indigenous families that are almost like a foster care system. They’re placed with these families. Sometimes they can live with extended relatives, but they don’t usually, not usually that familiar with them. So, you know, they’re all alone in this new intimidating city. And a lot of these teenagers really struggle with that change. The other thing is that Thunder Bay is notorious for its racism, especially in the police department. And so even recently, there have been reports about police brutality against Indigenous people. And there was a–

Margrit 1:47
I think there’s an inquiry, right?

Lin 2:56
Yeah, there was an inquiry that–they found that there’s systemic racism in the police department against Indigenous people. And so the book goes into the story of seven specific teenagers and starts with who they are, where they came from, who their families are, and how they came to be in Thunder Bay, and the circumstances around their deaths. And the seven teenagers all died within a relatively short period of time. I think it was like, I don’t know, like, within 10 years, and there’s a lot of suspicion around their deaths because for most of them, there hasn’t been a cause of death that’s been identified. And for five of the seven, they were found in one of the city’s rivers in the middle of winter. So it was like, they would go missing and their foster families or their friends would report it to the police and the police wouldn’t act on these missing persons reports. They wouldn’t send out search parties. They wouldn’t investigate or anything. And then weeks or sometimes months later, they just find these bodies that are like washed up on shore or like the Indigenous community would send out their own search parties and find these bodies, which is like, terrifying and like, really horrific.

Margrit 4:18
Absolutely.

Lin 4:19
Yeah, and then police would just chalk it up to teenagers drinking too much, getting drunk and accidentally drowning.

Margrit 4:25
Right, the so called–is it dangerous lifestyle? Or what do they deem it? Do you know, they have the code that they call it?

Lin 4:35
No, I don’t know.

Margrit 4:36
Do you know what I mean?

Lin 4:37
No, I’m not sure.

Margrit 4:38
Yeah. So it’s like, they use it in like police procedurals, and like TV series. We know when you have a sex worker being, you know–

Lin 4:48
Like a high risk type of lifestyle?

Margrit 4:50
Yeah, high risk lifestyle. That’s the–yeah, that’s the–sorry. And when you said the, when you talked about how the police do not actually treat these missing persons cases with the due importance, it reminded me of the case of the alleged serial killer in Toronto’s queer community. He was just charged last year after, you know, decades of gay men missing, have gone missing and police doing nothing about it.

Lin 5:03
And now there’s eight, I think eight people that are attributed to him.

Margrit 5:32
Right. So there’s a pattern of police not paying attention to marginalized communities, with huge detrimental effects.

Lin 5:42
Yeah, totally. And so in these cases with Indigenous youth in Thunder Bay, they never put the full resources into investigating these deaths. And they’re just like, oh, it’s accidental, which is like, okay, maybe one or two, you’d be like, okay, maybe it’s an accident, maybe it’s a coincidence. But so many of them? And since this book was written, there have been more deaths. So the underlying cause, or the underlying, like reason for why these situations are happening has never been dealt with or never been addressed. And in fact, there was an inquiry into the deaths of these seven people specifically. But the inquiry was like, not a sham, I don’t want to say it’s a sham. But it didn’t really come up with any answers. It didn’t provide any answers for the families, like they weren’t able to identify cause of death for a lot of them. Because a lot of the evidence has been destroyed or lost or not preserved. And so it’s just–

Margrit 6:46
And when a body is left in water, I think it becomes very hard to put even a time of death on it.

Lin 6:54
Yeah, exactly. Because the water just sort of like deteriorates the body.

So yeah, it’s really sad and I think the interesting thing in the book is that Tanya, she links this whole sort of situation where teenagers have to leave their homes to get an education back to the residential school system, which is a– So this is a legacy of the residential school system where Indigenous children were taken from their families to go live in these residential schools where they would supposedly get an education, but in fact, were mistreated and abused. And so then parents are stuck with this decision of, do I give my child a chance to get an education and risk them dying? Or do I keep them at home? But then they don’t get an education. And so it looks like an impossible choice. Like, how is anyone supposed to make that decision?

But yeah, the sobering thing about this book as I was reflecting on it is that you know, I am an immigrant to Canada. And so my ancestors were not involved with the colonizing of Canada. But because I still am considered a settler on this land, I’m still benefiting from the oppression of Indigenous people and simply by me occupying this space, this land, I’m in a way contributing to the oppression of the Indigenous people.

Margrit 8:24
Right. And the eraser, I think, of the history of Indigenous people as well as the the problematic and harmful and genocidal measures that the Canadian state has taken, you know, throughout the years against native populations is kind of underplayed in information about Canada. Because I remember when I was immigrating, you know, there’s all this information that you have to–that you don’t have to, I guess–but you should read about Canada. Actually, you do have to because they ask–before you come in, but there’s an interview and at the interview, you’re supposed to say, you know, where you want to settle and why you want to settle there, and so on and so forth. But, you know, I wanted to know more about, and I was not able to learn anything about Indigenous peoples. I was so completely oblivious.

Lin 9:22
That’s really disappointing.

Margrit 9:23
Right? I think, things might have changed. This is this is many years ago. Now, this is like, I don’t know, 18, 20 years ago now. And when I was immigrating, and there was nothing, nothing on the official government sites. Nothing about Indigenous communities, nothing. I mean, I hope it has changed now. I hope, you know, these people are doing–and not people, private individuals, but like institutions, especially official institutions are doing more to recognize the history of the Indigenous peoples.

Lin 10:00
Yeah. And so in, at least the Toronto area the past few years, whenever there is a public event, usually they’ll have a land acknowledgement, which I really appreciate because it’s reminding everyone that this land that we take for granted a lot of the times was stolen from people who were here before all of us were here, before any of our ancestors were here. And I realized the other day that the land acknowledgement lists the communities that lived on this land before colonizers came, and I didn’t know anything about these communities. So I went and tried to Google some of their names and didn’t come up with very much, to be honest. And I probably didn’t put as much time into it as I should have. But there–I just didn’t feel like there was a lot of information or–

Margrit 10:52
There isn’t. There isn’t, because here’s the thing, Toronto is a huge city. It’s you know, even by global standards, and what–I do these land acknowledgments when I, at the beginning of each semester in my classes. I start my classes this way and I was trying to get a better, more precise information because–the sort of the rote land acknowledgement for Toronto is that we are living on the traditional territory of the Mississaugas the New Credit, of the Wendat, of the Haudenosaunee, Metis and many other traditional Indigenous people who have lived here for many centuries. And that’s it and I thought, you know, maybe I can find something like, you know, the college where I work. What territory is that on? Hmm, like, whose territory used to be there? And yeah, it was impossible for me to find any more precise than that. Yeah. And I spent a little time looking into it. And it’s not it’s not possible because I live in East Toronto. That’s different from, you know, Mississauga. Yeah, I assume, you know, that, you know, the suburb of Mississauga is called Mississauga because the Mississaugas of the New Credit used to live there.

Lin 12:03
So I tried to look up a map to try to figure out, as you say, exactly like this particular neighborhood, who did this belong to? And I don’t think that–if there is such a map, I don’t think it’s very precise. Like I couldn’t find one. But I think it’s because there were no… I mean, I could be completely wrong. But my sense is that there were no sort of defined boundaries between oh, this belong to these people and then this side of the river belong to those people. I think it was a lot more fluid. But also, I think that people, like the government here or whatever, it may be they just haven’t bothered to keep those kinds of records.

Margrit 12:42
Yeah. And the other thing, too, is that the, sort of, the official relations between Indigenous peoples and the Canadian state have been ratified in treaties. And I’m not sure if the territory of Toronto, I know it’s like the Dish with One Spoon treaty. But I’m not sure how official that is, because I used to live in Alberta. And because it was more recently colonized, it’s very clear. So for example, Edmonton is, I think, Treaty Six. So the the territories themselves are more clearly defined according to the treaties that the Canadian government had signed with Indigenous people. Yeah, I’m not sure if that happens here.

Lin 13:25
I think there is. I think that it’s like, as you say, they’ve all got, each treaty has a number. So I think it is. I think that just people don’t know where to look for that information, because it’s not very easily available.

Margrit 13:39
The fact that still opaque in, again, in the age of Google is a big problem and a big symptom of how, you know, the Canadian government still routinely makes–renders the Indigenous peoples invisible.

Lin 13:54
Yeah, certainly. And so I think this is a really important book for, specifically Canadians to read because it’s in a Canadian context, but for everyone in North America to read, because I think in the US, there’s a lot of similar issues as we face in Canada. So, yeah, I highly recommend it.

Margrit 14:15
I remember when I was taking a course in American literature and we talked about the myth of the disappearing Indian, in US culture where the American–the Native American person is this archetypal figure that is very noble, but somehow has completely disappeared in recent times. You know, just how detrimental that is, right?

Lin 14:40
Mm hmm. Yeah, certainly.

Margrit 14:42
So absolutely. Everybody should get this book. I’m going to get right on it.

Lin 14:46
Yes. So what have you been enjoying this week?

Margrit 14:49
Um, well. I have had a stroke of good luck with books and I am going to talk about a middle grade novel called Echo by Pam Munoz Ryan, because I think it very subtly talks about historical moments that are still super relevant today in terms of the things that we need to remember when it comes to, you know, how to interact with people who are not like us–whoever us is. And so this is a really beautifully written novel. And it brings together three stories of three different kids who are united by this harmonica that has sort of an origin story as a legend at the beginning of the book. So that frames, sort of, the novel, and it’s a beautifully sounding harmonica.

And the first kid who has it is called Friedrich and he is a boy who lives in 1930s Germany, and Hitler and his Nazi Party are just starting to settle in rule and in government. And so all of their horrendous policies are starting to be applied everywhere and the oppression of you know, Jews and people with disabilities and all kinds of people who are deemed not to fit the nationalistic German ideal are being prosecuted, oppressed and hounded, and so on and so forth. And politically, he is a young boy and he has a rich imagination and he’s very gifted musically. But he was born with a congenital mark on his face and because of that, he gets bullied in school, and his father decides to homeschool him. And his father is also a musician, and he’s very outspoken against the Nazi rule and because of that, he is arrested and sent to a forced labor camp in Dachau. And so it is up to Friedrich to save him.

Lin 17:01
Can I just interrupt you for one second?

Margrit 17:03
Absolutely.

Lin 17:04
I love the way you say that name. Because I just feel like Frederick, which doesn’t sound very interesting. But you said it with the proper accent.

Margrit 17:14
Yes, because my undergrad was English and German so I get to use my German pronunciation.

Lin 17:20
There you go. Yeah anyway, please continue.

Margrit 17:22
Thank you. I will take flattery any day.

Lin 17:26
I freely give it.

Margrit 17:30
So this is the first story. The second story is the harmonica passes from Freidrich to another musically gifted boy whose name is Mike. And he and his brother are orphans and they’re living in a private orphanage in Philadelphia. And Mike is only 10 but he’s already almost six feet tall. So the private orphanage manager wants to put him out to work, which basically means indentured servitude. And he finds a notice in the paper about a harmonica band that he wants to join, but he cannot go because his brother is still in the orphanage and he really wants to make sure that his brother is sort of taken by foster family and settles before he goes.

And so, you know, in the first story we were talking about, you know, Nazis and all of that terrible time in the history of Europe and the world. And now we’re talking about the depression in the US and class differences that made it impossible for people to live properly in those times. And the third story in this beautiful novel is about a girl who is again musically gifted. Her name is Ivy Maria Lopez, and her parents are given the opportunity to go take care of a farm in Orange County, California. And this story takes place during World War Two. And it turns out that the farm actually belongs to a Japanese American family who had been sent to an internment camp. Because in the US and in Canada during World War Two, people of Japanese descent–so Japanese Americans and Japanese Canadians–were considered to be enemies.

And so, Ivy, the protagonist of the third story, wrestles with the injustice of it all with how, you know, unfairness it is that her family has found work when the Yamamotos have been taken out of their home. And she herself is actually sent to not the main school in that region but the annex because her family is of Mexican descent she is considered in need of quote unquote Americanization.

And so I found the way in which this novel deals with these complex social and political issues really, really interesting and accessible, but not in any way sort of simplified.

Lin 20:20
Uh huh. Right.

Margrit 20:22
So the nuance is still there. The subtlety is still there. Pam Munoz Ryan is a superb writer. Her descriptions are super rich and beautiful. And it’s just, it’s just, I couldn’t put this book down. I just picked it up, and the style and the craft just made me want to go on and on. So I really recommend this book to whoever is open to reading Middle Grade. And I promise that you won’t be, you know, even if you’re, you’re only reading adult fiction, you won’t be disappointed because this is not a simplified issue at all.

Lin 20:55
Yeah, and I think an interesting connection between Seven Fallen Feathers and Echo is that these are things that have happened in the world, in history. And we all kind of know it as facts and figures. But it doesn’t really–I think it’s hard for people to really relate to exactly what’s going on until the facts and figures are translated into a story about an individual and what that person has had to live through, and struggle through. And so I think it just goes to show the power of storytelling, you know, it’s able to take something that’s maybe distant and remote and make it very personal.

Margrit 21:39
Right. Or dry and neutral like figures. Right?

Lin 21:42
Right, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Margrit 21:44
And make it personal through, you know, the emotion of a lived experience. Absolutely.

Lin 21:52
Yeah. Yeah. So we have some business to talk about.

Margrit 21:57
Absolutely. Very important stuff. So our giveaway enjoyed such a phenomenal success.

Lin 22:03
So phenomenal. We can’t even tell you what comments we got. It’s just unbelievable.

Margrit 22:09
And not because they’re top secret, but…

Lin 22:12
No, yeah, we got none.

Margrit 22:14
We got no comments.

Lin 22:15
Zero comments.

Margrit 22:17
Yeah. So welcome to our pity party.

Lin 22:22
I have chocolate, we’re going to eat chocolate. So we’re going to save the giveaway for another time. So stay tuned for that.

Margrit 22:31
We do have a question for you. So if you are moved to comment any time is welcome. And our question is, do you have an example of a story that touched you and informed you about people you didn’t really know much about?

Lin 22:46
And as always, you can comment on this or previous episodes on Twitter @World_ofStories or you can email us at worldofstoriespodcast@gmail.com We would love to hear what you think.

Margrit 22:58
Be sure to subscribe to our podcast to get new episodes as they drop. And if you like our show, please please please leave us a review on iTunes, Google Play or wherever you’re listening to us.

Lin 23:10
And since we are heading into the holiday season if you’re celebrating a holiday, we’d like to wish you a very happy holidays.

Margrit 23:18
Happy Holidays and see you in 2019!